I don't think an agnostic/atheist person could get elected to national office in our country.

he looks like he is thinking real hard in this pic, lol. made ma laugh.....

Jillness is right. I think Ron Reagan was asked if he'd be interested in running for public office, and he said there was no way an atheist would ever be elected. I tend to agree.

I finally learned how to "Bold"!

I def don't feel saturated with religion

And religion has ruined so many good careers. Kirk Cameron, Linda Carter, Latoya Jackson just to name a few.

It's true. Atheists are viewed as Godless sinning machines by society at large. Many people think only Christians have values and morals as if people can't have them for any other reason than thinking a deity wants them to.

I would highly suggest a very small little book called "Fighting Words" on this topic. It is a collections of quotes and writings from the founders of America which clearly and adamantly state their intent in keeping church and state separate.

For instance "In God We Trust" "One Nation Under God" these ad ons are one foot too far over the line for me.

I am a man of faith myself, but I say to my other brothers and sisters of faith if you want a Theocracy that bad go find an island and pitch a flag on it. You're not going to hijack America because she is great in her multiplicity and how ironic that you are part of it and part of what makes her great.

hypnoticmix - I love you. Seriously, you always say exactly what I'm thinking in the most perfect way.

Jillness - I completely agree. For all the speculation that Obama wouldn't be where he is if he weren't black, or Hillary wouldn't be where she is if she wasn't a woman, there are no clear cut answers.

But when it comes to religion, I don't think there is any speculation. I think it's pretty much fact that if you're not a Christian, you're not going to become President or even get close to being nominated.

Which brings up another issue that most people aren't really talking about in the wake of the Wright Scandal and Ferrarogate, could you imagine if Hillary was a lesbian or Barack was bisexual? The SCANDAL!

As an atheist (I hate that word it implies that a god is a fact), I said Yes. But people can pre-judge you all they want but they can only hold you back if you allow them to. As far as I know the word ATHEIST isn't branded across my forehead although I am considering getting a tattoo of the American Atheist symbol on my back (although that seems really childish and goofy to me to have to declare something in that fashion).

My not and having never believed that a god or gods existed or exist has absolutely nothing to do with whether I am a good person, whether I obey societies rules and code of conduct. I do obey societies rules and code of conduct because I choose to not because of some supernatural threat of damnation. I do it for the good of all people - non-believers and believers. Just as some believers choose not to obey the rules of society and the code of conduct because they feel they don't need to answer to other humans.

I get a chuckle out of the fact that my aunt who is a deaconess and my cousin who is a minister say that I am the most honest, moral, kind and helpful person they know. I honestly tease them and say that they must not know many people. My position is simply that I ask that from my family and friends or any believer - doesn't question my position and try to impose your beliefs on me and I will continue to refrain doing the same. You truly have no way of knowing that what I believe is any less correct than you do of knowing that what you believe is correct.

I also ask that people get the stupid thought that atheism equals satanist out of the narrow minds. I believe there are no god or gods or supernatural beings period, so why I would suddenly choose as a atheist to believe in satan? That whole line of thinking is bound illogical and is just oozing of a total lack of rationality and a desire to vilify anyone who thinks differently than you. Or the thought that atheists are evil, misguided people and that we really want to believe or to be converted or want to convert people to our way of thinking. No, I've no desire to convert anyone to being a punching bag. There is no doctrine or edict for being an atheist so aside from the statement that atheists do not believe that there are/is a god or gods, atheists are free to tweak their other beliefs and desires to how ever they want - just as religious people are and do.

Atheism is not something I choose - it is something that I was always known and been since I was a small little girl. For me to believe in god would be a lie and going against the very nature of who I am. However that said I was really upset that one of my nephews has realized that he is an atheist and that the other says he is agnostic. I never discussed my standing with them until they came to me for advice on how to get along with non-secular people. Them not believing or one not knowing and therefore abstaining from saying definitively yes or no is the result of their own person realizations and the fact that my religious sister (their mother) allowed them to decide on their own what they believe to be true. As I tell my sister "Don't get pissed at me. I said nothing except 'maybe you should take them to church more.' Its your fault for letting them choose what they believe on their own." She doesn't like that her two children are atheist and agnostic while she is christian but she accepts it but she doesn't respect it.

And Jillness- there are two atheist lawmakers in Washington right now. Both elected. One in the senate, the other in the house. Neither mentioned their atheism during their campaigns (as far as I know their constituents did ask) and it isn't a factor in their lives or an issue. They didn't run on their beliefs they ran on their abilities. Neither has held a press conference about being an atheist but both are members of American Atheists and both attended the last year's Atheist Conference. It's not for me to point them out but the info is readily available of who they are and what states they represent.

raciccarone - the actors listed chose religion over careers..

And quite honestly, the stats on both sides show a sample of passionate people actively practicing what they believe.. People who don't give a flip aren't out buying books specifically on atheism, Christianity or any other religion, and I have a feeling there are alot more of those than we realize. A few loud atheists are the ones that have made it absolutely impossible to celebrate holidays that have been practiced for years.. They have every right to hold whatever view they want and I truly mean that, but their imposition of beliefs is just the same as the Christian's imposition of beliefs they are constantly attacking.
From what I have read, seen and experienced personally, atheists are constantly attacking anyone or anything that holds a belief in God, and on the defense. From what I have experienced personally, alot of them play victim, and really haven't tried another form of communicating what they are trying to get across..

This is MY personal experience, and I am definitely NOT saying all atheists are like this.

lacey, if that's the only thing you got out of this article, then you obviously didn't read it.

"their imposition of beliefs is just the same as the Christian's imposition of beliefs they are constantly attacking"

good point phatE

I have no problem with athiests, people can believe whatever they want. But the majority of this country believes in some God, so I don't see the point to taking out "in god we trust" or "under god"...

Democracy is about majority rule, is it not?

That being said, I think Christmas had a big comeback this year since more attention has been put on the "merry christmas" debate... but then again I live in the south where people start saying Merry Christmas on Dec. 1

I start saying it in March. Merry Christmas everyone!!!!

and for my Jewish friends...

Thats right only 281 more shopping days left!

Cabaker and MMM:

So funny.

I'm not religious, I'm more agnostic that atheist, but I do believe that there is good and bad, and that we should try to do good while we are here(not sure what here is or there will be either). Kind of like Star Wars. But not (I'm not crazy). I do believe in separation of church and state. And I think we need to show respect for all religions, also "unpopular ones" like Islam is now and Judaism used to be. But I think we need to keep positive traditions like Christmas and Santa, and reindeers and Christmas songs, because although founded in Christianity it is a family celebration that many cultures partake in. I think there is room enough for every one, and every type of celebration.

Cabaker - we don't have a democracy. We have a democratic republic and the Establishment Clause of the Constitution exists to protect the minority. In fact, a Supreme Court case from Santa Fe said as much. Just because certain individuals perceive there to be a majority that believes in monotheism doesn't make it ok for the state to engage in religious rhetoric or promote a specific religion/belief.

thank you poissondujour for responding to cabaker so i didn't have to.

I also don't like the fact that people are trying to take religion out of everything. Religion is there whether people like it or not. The fact that we're "allowed" to celebrate Christmas and Hanukkah gives atheists the right to just celebrate plain old winter. Stop trying to take the religion out of Christmas. Many people celebrate Christmas even if they don't believe in any religion, just for fun! This is why I(and many many other Christians and people who just want out holidays) no longer shop at Macy's(although they have tried to cover their sorry tail after such a boycott that particular year).

poison - I don't think I ever said that it was ok for the state to engage in religious rhetoric.

I don't think you can argue that the majority of this country doesn't say they practice some form of Christianity because the facts say otherwise.

My point is that if the majority of people practice something, I shouldn't have to hear stories about sales clerks not being allowed to say Merry Christmas or have to go to Lowes to buy my "holiday tree", which of course, has nothing to do with the separation of church and state.

I 2nd that cab

That is sad that there is only one tiny little Hanukkah icon for our four big Christmas ones

they should make a star of david one, then you could use it for passover too!

Is Christmas in July a no go?

I agree, cabaker. Religion as it relates to the state is one thing, but I don't understand when people are outraged because store clerks say Merry Christmas, particularly because Christmas isn't a religious holiday any longer for so many people. This is why the Supreme Court allows "Christmas" displays of items like trees, wreaths, etc. on public (government-owned) ground, but is limiting (although still allowing, in some cases) the display of overtly Christian Christmas displays. Anyway, I'm getting off-track.

What I was originally going to comment on was that book sales cannot be looked at to determine that atheists are actually a majority in our country, when all other indicators show that this is clearly not the case. To me, that seems like a pretty unscientific way of looking at which group is actually in the majority.

And Jillness, I agree when talking about the presidency. Although, I think it shows a lot that there is one atheist in Congress right now and there are also two Buddhists and two Muslims. I know those are extremely small numbers, but I feel like it's taking a step in the right direction.

I dont think the book sales matter, I have a good friend who is a monk and has read both of those athiest books... Somehow I don't think he's converting

I don't know Cabaker, every time I've read anything I immediately become what I've read.....

btw - thanks liberty and citizen and everyone on here... my book list is filling up like crazy!

I'm the same way, cabaker. I'm re-reading Atlas Shrugged right now and it's a long one, so it's a bit of a project. But, when I am finished, I'm thinking it's going to be time for a good non-fiction book, and now I have tons of titles jotted down!

hey citizen/liberty - maybe you could do a feature on the regular commenters favorite books!

then we can all get some more ideas!

I vote for The Lorax. He speaks for the trees, you know.

I'm not religious - I've been through several religions, and have come to a sort of neutral non-believing stage that consists mainly of not thinking too hard about such things - but I feel that there's a lot of hatred between religious people and atheists, for no real reason other than that they're fighting over whether there's a giant all-powerful invisible dude in the sky. Surely we have better things to do with our time than engage in such petty bickering?

I think it's ok if someone is looking for the right religion. It is there business what they choose to believe in the end. I would not dare judge someone because they don't believe in the same things that I do.

I don't believe people are that stupid.

they just pretend to be.

and then judge others.