Though President Bush makes no secret of the influence his faith has on his agenda, rarely has the president mixed the language of faith and God so closely with talk of war and terrorism as he did yesterday in an address to the National Religious Broadcasters convention in Tennessee. Bush defended his actions in Iraq and Afghanistan with a 42-minute address attributing his faith to his foreign policy.
Coming just one day after spritual leaders protested President Bush's veto of limits to US interrogation techniques, his speech tying the war to a spiritual quest could raise eyebrows. In his speech Bush said,
The effects of a free Iraq and a free Afghanistan will reach beyond the borders of those two countries. . . . It will show others what’s possible. And we undertake this work because we believe that every human being bears the image of our maker. That’s why we’re doing this. No one is fit to be a master, and no one deserves to be a slave.
To see how tied "freedom" to God, read more. Bush went on to call freedom a “precious gift,” and said, “The liberty we value is not ours alone. Freedom is not America’s gift to the world; it is God’s gift to all humanity.” From the audience came shouts of, “Amen!”
Do you find it difficult to reconcile the two missions? On the one hand Bush has set out to deliver the divine gift of freedom, while on the other refusing to outlaw inhumane treatment of those who might stand in his way. Is it a case of "do as I say, not as I do?" Or, "damned if you do, damned if you don't?"
Moschino
Esprit
Full Circle
Is it Christian week or something here on Citizen? I feel like there have been a lot of post related to Christianity.
1One reason that Bush and McCain scare me is that both of their religious beliefs say that a war with Iran will bring troops of God to Israel, where the Anti-Christ will appear to bring about End of Times.
I dont think religion should have ANYTHING to do with international polciy.
2Wow, that to me sums up most wars to me. Done in the name of god.
Jillness is right, religion should have nothing to do with foreign policy.
3Cine, it must be. Maybe its because its Lent?
4So in Bush's version of Christianity, a benevolent and loving God and Jesus approve of waterboarding, detaining and torturing innocents, murdering yet more innocents, and creating a world of increasing--not decreasing--violence and instability thanks to wars based on lies?
I'm glad I'm not a member of his church.
5Well I agree with his statements about freedom, it's not an American right it's a human right. That's just common sense. Now how he chooses to bring about that right is what is at issue. His deceit and his decisions which go against the grain of the core values of his own faith only serve to make him a hypocrite and the world a more hostile place to live. I have observed countless Christians in my life time who give the faith a bad name by jumping on witch hunt band wagons for one reason or another and making statements and taking actions which completely contradict the very core of the Christian faith. I'm not a Christian but in my opinion true Christianity is not half as bad as these people make it look.
6This is breath-taking. The same guy who has us torturing people, denying them legal counsel or valid trials, is doing this all for Jesus. I could cry, this really is so, so horrible!
7Hi cine_lover! We're working on the "World of Faith" theme this month, and trying to feature stories that look at religion and spirituality--and definitely trying to feature a variety of religions, not just Christianity. I'm personally fascinated by the role of religion in all facets of our global lives--it seems like it's behind most stories if you look closely.
8He said what???
9That's cool Citizen. Not knocking it, but how about some different religions?
10It's high time "leaders" like him stop using their warped, self-serving interpretations of religion to justify whatever unjustifiable actions they commit.
11Jillness, are you saying that McCain says that U.S. troops going into Israel would be the "troops of God," etc., or that his religion says that? I think that politicians can easily separate themselves from their religious beliefs when it comes to policy issues.
12Hey Jill, do you have the link where McCain said that? I would like to read the article, since I plan on voting for the man.
THANKS!
13You got it cine_lover--we're hot on the case!
14He endorsed the man that wrote the book saying that. I saw it on the news the other day, but I will try to hunt it down and get back to you!
15Thanks Jill and Citizen!
16That's kind of similar to Obama's pastor praising Louis Farrakhan and saying that he "truly epitomized greatness". Obama's book was based on a sermon from this man. So just because McCain endorsed a man that wrote a book saying that, that doesn't neccessarily mean you should be afraid of his beliefs. Otherwise, why should an jewish person vote for Obama?
17In his book "Jerusalem Countdown: A Warning to the World," Hagee predicts Russian and Arab armies will invade Israel and be destroyed by God. Israel will then be the site of a battle between China and the West, which will be led by the anti-Christ in his role as head of the European Union. Jesus Christ will return to Earth in the final battle, he writes.
I'm very honored by Pastor John Hagee's endorsement today," McCain said at a news conference. "He has been the staunchest leader of our Christian evangelical movement in many areas, but especially, most especially, his close ties and advocacy for the freedom and independence of the state of Israel."
To be fair, McCain did say that he was not familiar with his writings, but I have a hard time believing that. How could he know about his support of Israel with out knowing his reasoning behind that? Also, if the right beat up Obama about Farakahn, and Obama didn't even like Farakahn, how can they ignore someone so radical as this?
18Piper, your example would only work if Obama endorsed Farakahn himself. Obama has spoken out against him many, MANY times. Obama has no direct link to Farakahn, and has never supported him.
McCain, however, DOES have a direct relationship with this man. Very different.
19So, the man that wrote the book endorsed him, not the other way around. I think that changes the entire thing. It's not like McCain went out of his way to find this person. There's a very good chance he was playing the game and knew that accepting an endorsement from someone like this would help him with the conservative base. There's a good chance he read a quick "fact sheet" on this person before publicly accepting the endorsement. And A LOT of people support Israel with completely different reasons. Just knowing that someone supports something definitely does not presume that someone knows the reasons behind that support.
20And, in my eyes, piper's comments are still valid because you are saying that because McCain is supported by someone who believes x, then he believes x. Obama has a personal/direct relationship with his pastor. Piper is using the same logic, saying because his pastor believes y, he believes y. It's the same type of reasoning.
21What you posted sounds much of the story of Armegeddon, which is actualy I believe a battle field in Israel. Sounds like the guy is just rewriting the bible.
Anyhow, McCain does not endorse this guy, he endorses McCain, which I feel is not the same.
22And I'm not saying that Obama has ever supported Farakan. But if you're going to link McCain beliefs with this guy's just because he endorsed him, then the same can be said for Obama. Only I'm not saying it, just that it COULD be said.
23In fact, Farrakhan did endorse Obama, just like Hagee endorsed McCain. And both distanced themselves from the endorsements. McCain stated, "It's simply not accurate to say that because someone endorses me that I therefore embrace their views." Obama also made it clear that he did not solicit Farrakhan's support. Neither candidate can control when someone endorses them!
24McCain mentioned Hagee's thoughts on Israel as one of the reasons that he supports him. Obama doesn't support Farakahn.
And just because you like one person, doesn't mean that you can control everyone that they interact with. If one of my friends at work supports something radical, you are saying that makes me guilty too? People have many facets, and just because you agree with one doesn't mean you agree with all of them. Obama obviously differs with his pastor when it comes to Farakahn. McCain, however, directly endorsed this man and praised his stance on Israel.
I think there is a clear distiction. Obama has denounced Farakahn numerous times (soooooo many times). To pretend that there is still a link between the two really seems like a desperate attempt to defile him.
25"And both distanced themselves from the endorsements."
Did Obama ever say that he was HONORED to be endorsed by Farkahn? No!
Once again,
26"I'm very honored by Pastor John Hagee's endorsement today," McCain said.
I don't think anyone on this post is trying to pretend that there is a link between Obama and Farrakhan. We are using that to show the faulty reasoning behind the idea that McCain believes everything this man believes. In fact, the idea that there is not a link between Obama and Farrakhan is precisely the support for Piper's argument.
27I read what you stated. From the brief research I have done, it seems that McCain made that statement before he knew what Hagee really stood for. After he did more research, he distanced himself from Hagee and his beliefs. If he's guilty of anything, it's of not properly researching someone who endorsed him, not of believing what Hagee believes.
28I don't see how a rational person could support going to war with Iran after the debacle in Iraq, unless they had other motivation.
"McCain and his staff actively sought out Hagee's endorsement, he appeared and campaigned with Hagee, he said he was proud to be backed by Hagee."
29Also, I believe that any attempt to suggest that McCain actually believes "that a way with Iran will bring troops of God to Israel, where the anti-Christ will appear to bring about the end of times," seems like a desperate attempt to defile him.
30No one paid attention to Bush's similar beliefs, and look where we are.
Obama has never tried to force his religious beliefs into policy.
31What source are you getting these quotes from? Everything I have read makes absolutely no mention of McCain seeking out Hagee's support/endorsement.
32I don't think it really matters if McCain believes these things or not. If he is accepting of their attempts to influence him and his campaign, isn't that just as bad? If you go along with them, it is just as bad as believing it.
33For the record, I do not think that Obama has any link with Farakan whatsoever. That being said, I'm a Christian and I believe Bush and McCain are too. I don't like to hear that my religious beliefs scare people but I reckon it does.
34And I still don't see where McCain is trying to force his religious beliefs into foreign policy. You can argue that McCain's desire to go to war may not be the best route to take, but he has never publicly stated that his desire to go to war with Iran is for religious reason. He always uses their nuclear weapons program as the reason he thinks the U.S. should consider going to war with Iran.
Even granting that McCain did seek out this endorsement (I'm not agreeing that he did, just granting that point for the sake of argument), that in no way shows that he will/has let his religious beliefs affect his foreign policy views.
35Right, and he backed away from the endorsement after he found out what Hagee actually believes.
36I think Jesus would reject and denounce Bush.
37It's a case of do as I say, not as I do. Bush is a hypocrite and has been so since the onset. Frankly, I think he gives most Christians a bad name.
38I agree about Bush, but not about McCain. I think Bush also gives most Republicans a bad name.
39"I think Bush also gives most Republicans a bad name."
I think you are absolutely correct, lilkimbo!
40I'm still trying to figure out where McCain said he'd like to go to war with Iran... I can't seem to find the quote "I would like to go to war with Iran"
41He can just go f**k himself!!! God doesn't condone the deaths of innocent people!!!! Bible bashers are as scary as terrorists they both have crazy ideas abou t their religions!!!
42Religon will always be in politics, whats matters is the extent of it. And honestly, I would rather have a President knows there is someone out there greater than himself than one who think he is the be all, end all of everything. haha, maybe we could call that the "spitzer syndrome"...
43I know, cabaker, I guess I did kind of say that McCain said he'd like to go to war with Iran, which is not really what I meant. I meant to say that anything McCain has said against Iran has not been based on religion whatsoever.
44Not directing that at you lilkimbo... Ive seen many, many times on here people saying that McCain wants to go to war with Iran... I'd just like to see the evidence of him saying that.
45I'm glad you said something, actually, because I have heard people say that, too, and I am beginning to think they are infecting my mind, because I am slipping up and saying things I don't mean. Ahhhh!!!!
46Cabaker27 -- McCain made a statement in April 2007 about wanting to bomb Iran earlier this year. My quote is from CNN:
WASHINGTON (CNN) -- At a town hall meeting in South Carolina Wednesday, Arizona Sen. John McCain was asked if there is a plan to attack Iran. McCain began his answer by changing the words to a classic Beach Boys' song.
"You know that old Beach Boys song, Bomb Iran?" the Republican presidential candidate said. Then, he sang. "Bomb bomb bomb, bomb bomb Iran."
47I also saw that clip, Juju!
"I don't like to hear that my religious beliefs scare people but I reckon it does"
This makes me sad! I didn't mean to attack anyone's religion. If I could hug you, I would!
It is just very scary when people are elected to lead the country, and they end up misleading the country into a war for suspicious reasons. It makes you wonder, why? There are some connections that really frighten me. Like how Blackwater was created by a son of the founder of the Family Research Council (lobbying group). I saw a special, and granted I do take it with a grain of salt, but this program essentially said that Blackwater was built to literally "crusade".
I don't feel that enough attention has been paid to how much these groups effect our government. I don't mind people wanting religious protection, I just don't want them pushing religious oppression. Sometimes the extreme groups of the religious right get ovezealous. I don't think it applies to all groups, of course, but I don't feel that there have been enough "watchdogs" for the ones that are.
48Sixth commandment, anyone? Thou shalt not kill?
I've always considered that the easy one too. Sorry Bush, Jesus wouldn't be bombing innocent people.
49Bush's comments absolutely sicken me. I don't even know where to begin.
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