totally unforgiveable

Yeah, you don't KNOW that he's gay, you're just assuming and backing it up based on others assumptions. I'd be VERY hurt and offended if I were your friend, and I wouldn't even consider inviting you to my wedding. It was completely out of place for you to say anything to her about it. Not Forgive...

Its one thing to confront her if you actually saw him kissing another man, but to judge someone based on the way they dress and "act" is a totally different thing. I dont really blame her for getting upset with you. Its not your place to make that call..and I would be truely offended as well. Maybe you are right, but you really are in no place to make that judgement or try to convince your friend of that. (especially with no actual proof)

Forgive. It doesn't sound like you were trying to hurt her. You said you thought he was gay BEFORE they got together. Even if you still think he is, you didn't say that to her.

It sounds like your friend did take what you said to heart and it worries her. She might now be starting to think that her fiance is gay because you put these thoughts in her head. Maybe she's in denial, so her reaction is to be mad at you.

You need to try and accept that they are happy together and not worry about what his sexuality is, it isn't your business. Just apologize to your friend for what you said. If they want to be together, support them.

(And if you're still worried about them getting married, you probably should have mentioned you thought it was a little sudden, not you thought he was gay.)

Forgive. You're just trying to look out for a friend.

i forgot not forgive- it wasn't your place-- and she didn't ask for your opinion. instead of "looking out" it seems more like youre jealous for her happiness. PLUS if you were really concerned that he could have been gay, why didnt you wait until he asked her to marry him to tell her? it just seems fishy.

Forgive: I believe that friends tell each other the truth. You were only looking out for her, and didn't want her to get hurt. Maybe it's just my circle of friends, but I have a friend who's engaged to a very effeminate man, and we've all broached the subject to her. Turns out, he's not gay, but it never turned into a problem or an argument. If you had genuine concerns, I think you were being a good friend to voice them.

voted* god i am so out of it this afternoon

Not Forgive, I have a close male friend who is always being asked if he is gay yet he has a wife and a kid on the way. He's very much not gay and he is constantly hurt when questioned about his orientation. I would be furious if I was your friend because it sounds like you had a whole laundry list of reasons that you gave her. I'd be angry that you felt the need to keep a tally of all the things he does/has done to use in your argument and the fact that you never felt the need to ask me. Instead, you gossiped about him behind your friends back to others. I would not invite you to my wedding and definitely not back into my life.

If she doesn't ask for it, then I don't think you should be telling her your assumption about her FIANCEE's sexual orientation. So I'm totally fine with her not inviting you to the wedding for the offensive implication you've brought up to her (as a bride/f@g-hag?/false marriage), it's her choice after all, and if she's hurt over what you said, so be it. You just have to learn to mind your own business next time. Unless you saw him kissing another man, having nookie with another man (and have the tape to prove it), or him showing up in gay-oriented magazine, then I'd say you're running on assumptions and should not even bring it up to her.

In my opinion, your action's not looking out for a friend because you said to her WAY TOO LATE, if you're really looking out for her, you'd have this conversation way before (your assumption), back in the days they just start dating, before she fell in love with him and agreed to marry the guy.
It feels like something you just have to 'confess' to her before her nuptial or reveal a potential gossip, instead of a fair warning, and I can understand that your friend felt insulted because you're basically saying that she's a f@g h@g, or a beard, or implicating that her marrying him means those things. It's like 'gossiping' and very very much circumstantial evidence you've gotten (oh the way he looks and his friends, THAT'S NOT real proof).

Anyway, good luck.

i think the time to say something was when they first started dating (if at all). she just told you that she's getting married, she's really excited and wants to include you and then; BOOM. you tell her that everything she thinks she's got with this guy is in her head. especially bad on your part because it's based on just gut feelings.

no offense, because i'm sure you meant well, but are you a person that thinks they always know better that everyone else. sometimes it's okay just to so along with the other person's moment and say nothing. and i agree with her about you not going to the wedding. why would you want to go?

not forgive.

I think this is the only time I've voted not forgive. This wasn't the time, and your "proof" is completely subjective and circumstantial. Basically, when she's at the point where she's getting engaged to the guy you'd better have a man in the sheets for there to be enough proof. Chances are everything you told her she's aware of! I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and say your heart was in the right place, but that was a mistake.

I vote not forgive because it's not like she doesn't know her own boyfriend. Did you really think your sudden pronouncement was going to bring to her attention something new and that you were absolutely right and she was going to break it off? You might be right, might be wrong - but you have no solid reason to mention it, just pure speculation. Your reasons - body language, attire, close relationships with gay men - aren't secret. She knows his body, attire, and relationships already. You should be begging for her forgiveness, that you didn't want to offend, and that your stereotyping may be just that and nothing more, and that you support her.

This reminds me of Debbie Downer. Horrible timing.

This is also my first time ever voting to Not Forgive. It's *their* relationship, not yours. As long as they're happy together, that's all you should care about. What you did was actually try to sabotage this relationship, although I'm not sure why. Maybe it was done on an unconscious level, but I don't think so since you spent so much time speculating with people about this guy's sexuality.

Oh, and if you happened to have mentioned to her that 'everyone else thinks so, too', then I doubly don't forgive you because you've now made her feel like everyone is against her and them. Don't expect to see much of her down the road.

Life is too short..so I will most likely vote Forgive each and every time,although I find what you did disgusting,you have no proof,this kind of sh*t makes me mad. I know a guy who was put on church discipline for living with a gay guy . but in fact it was his best friend and he was just helping him out cuz he was sick. Imagine if someone assumed something about you and how you would feel.

I think forgive. You were just trying to give her your opinion, concern which you thought was important. Just email her back and explain that you didn't to offend her but you are just trying to look out for her because she is you friend. You just don;t want to see her hurt. Just apologize and tell her that you are supportive of their relationship (if in fact you are) and hopefully she will invite you back to their wedding (if you want to go). Good Luck

Jeez, *TOUCHY* much? Why on earth would someone be *hurt* over others perceptions of sexuality? Talk about insecure. This seems like something ridiculous to get upset over. If someone came to me thinking my husband were gay I would have a good laugh, not get all temper-tantrumy. I doubt her relationship with him is in the best place, if she feels the need to eject a friend over something so silly. How threatened must she be? Sad.

Forgive, because your heart was in the right place.

Also, forgive her reaction as well. She's confused and any lashing out is purely defensive.

She has the right to get upset about your comment. True, some people will just laugh it off, but if she's not happy then, she's not. If she feels this is an attack, then she has every right to not invite you the wedding. But ...who am I to judge forgive or not forgive, the most important opinion right now is yours and hers (if you want to patch thing up). If you want, you can apologize for offending her, and tell her you don't mean to. That's all you can do.

What a lousy timing, why wait 9 months to tell her? And after she's engaged? Yikes.

If I were you, I'd casually mention to her that many people thought him gay BEFORE they even went out.
By 9 months later, I'm pretty sure she probably knows if he is or he's not, but she also probably gets mad since you add in something similar to her being the topic of gossip. She probably feels mad because she thought everyone was assuming that it's a fake relationship since he's 'gay.'
Maybe the way you deliver it caused her offense. I mean, that's a pretty delicate subject to bring up (especially since you make the effort to bring it up to her), and if you delivered it wrong, off with your 'head.'

Oy. Better delivery next time.

Not forgive. I realize that you had her best interests at heart, but you simply cannot make assumptions about someone's sexuality. I too know a guy who everyone (including gay men) assumes is gay, but he has been dating the same girl for over a year. Stereotypes are just that, and in this case you should not treat your gut instinct as fact.

You may have been trying to look out for your friend but it probably wasnt your place nor was it the right time. And lets be honest, you're just presuming that he's gay and have nothing concrete to go on.

And i hate the word 'gaydar'.

Not forgive, it was not your place to tell her based completely on superficial assumptions with no actual evidence to support those assumptions. There are metrosexual men though they are a much rarer in existence in America except the metro parts, obviously.

Not Forgive. Yeah, you weren't trying to hurt her feelings, but you should step outside of yourself and take a look at what this really is- you telling her what you think HER boyfriend/fiance "looks like" based on a bunch of stereotypes. that takes a lot of nerve. and it's really offensive. I definitely wouldn't invite you to the wedding, knowing what would be on your mind almost the entire time.

Yeah you're quite the B*tch aren't you? I mean just b/c you dress a certain way, have close gay friends, have some effin style or act in a way that isn't the normal alpha male you are considered gay? Please! My boyfriend has mostly gay male friends, he dresses amazing, we have the most incredibly styled apartment, he's styled, sophisticated and cultured, and he works in a gay bar b/c that is where is looks and physique make him the most money as a bartender...and he is anything but gay.

Be open minded and not so thinking that the world and sexuality is black and white.

Not forgive. You're VERY insensitive, and you lack some boundaries.

You stuck your nose in a sensitive area that was off-limits to you. You're talking about your friend's fiance's SEXUALITY. That's THEIR business, not yours. Mind your own sexuality, and that of your significant other.

Aside from this issue, I wonder what other boundary you may lack. You may often hurt someone's feelings in your attempt "to help." Do you tell a friend you think she's ugly? To "help" her improve her appearance?

FORGIVE! You're looking out for her best interests, and it takes a true friend to be able to spill your thoughts like that. Personally, I'd want to honestly know what my friends think about my man before something serious happens. Although your friend does have the right to be angry, I think you should both talk about it more. And don't listen to anyone here who calls you a b*tch- that's just immature.

Homosexuality is a SEXUALITY, not a lifestyle. Have you ever considered that he's so comfortable in his sexuality that he can dress nicely and be friends with homosexuals without caring what other people think?

And, chances are, your friend knows her boyfriend better than you do. She probably knows about his mannerisms and who his friends are. You had no right to voice your ASSUMPTION at the risk of ruining her happy relationship.

like nobody else has ever assumed anything about people based on their looks and personality! it might not have been about sexuality, but maybe any other category where there is the ability to be biased or prejudiced, or even calling another girl a nasty name just because of the way she's dressed or looks. there are very few people out there who can say they never have.

my friends used to tell me all the time that they don't get along with my bf BUT it does not mean that i uninvite them to my wedding!

your friend is completely blowing this our of proportion, and it sounds as if she is doubting the relationship herself, hence being crazily defensive.
she needs to learn to laugh it off and said something along the lines of "i've got proof otherwise!" and if he's setting off "gaydar" that much, she had better become desensitized to it.

It also does not mean that you aren't supportive of the relationship, or your friendship. I am sure you are not the only one of her friends who have thought something about it, but the only one to have the brass ones to say something.

I forgive you. it ain't that deep.

see, she would be mad if that mutha-uka left her a*s for another dude and she be sitting there crying talkin' about how she had no idea. she didn't see the signs, and then after a little investigation, she finds out that he use to hang out at the Blue Nipple and that's where YOU met him- meaning you knew all along he was a fagala, but you failed to mention it to her. NOW, she hates you for not telling her.

i wouldn't be mad at my friend for saying what you said. you said that you THOUGHT he might be gay. hey, that might be something i need to look into, coming from a good friend. maybe he does wax his balls too often and his pants are tighter than mines but he's not Emo. you know?

why would i be mad about YOUR opinion. it's not like you were saying, "he's a blazin' F** and you should dump him!".

let her be mad at her fonky-a*s wedding. they'll probably break up before they actually get down the aisle anyways . . .

OR, you put a bug in her ear, and she is just frontin' with you, and she knows her man likes to shoot AND catch milkshake.

sarah lynn-Yes, everyone assumes things and makes judgements about people everyday. I will openly admit that Ive seen guys walking down the sidewalk and thought "oh wow, hes got to be gay" I dont care if hes gay, its not my bussiness if hes gay, Im just making observations. AND I dont go telling that guys girlfriend that I think hes gay. Theres is a big different, between just making assuptions and the actual situation here.

I vote forgive, but I think you should have brought it up when they first started dating. You could have jokingly said that you thought he was gay. Your timing was really bad.

I have a male cousin (my best one at that)who always had long relationships with girls, 2 yrs, 3 yrs. I always thought he was effeminate and possibly gay. He eventually came out. He didn't talk about it with me until he was about 7 or 8 years into his latest relationship even though he knew I knew.

My mother told me after I stopped seeing 2 boyfriends that she thought they may be gay. Both of them have rumors swirling around of bisexuality and one had a new gay best friend. Having a girlfriend is not an indicator that a man is not gay.

I am not saying that her fiance is gay or not, I am just commenting to the posters that say someone called someone they know gay, but it can't be possible b/c they have a girl.

AKirstin : Agreed perfectly.

I once told my friend that her boyfriend was gay.. and they were engaged.. and guess what? The guy is gay. But of course, he told me all his stories about romping and whatever else.. but he didn't look at all like a usual gay man would. (If you believe in those 'usual suspects' thing)

I voted to not forgive, but mostly because I can't believe any woman older than 15 would be clueless enough to think that voicing their "concerns" about a friend's boyfriend would result in anything other than trouble for the friendship.

Let this be a lesson to you: Keep your mouth shut! It never, EVER pays to bash a friend's boyfriend until they are broken up for good and she has moved on to the next boyfriend.

And for the record, do not rely on a jury of gay men to determine the sexuality of an attractive young man. Wishful thinking will always sway them in favor of declaring the man in question part of their team.

HOLY sh*t

what a crazy friend u have...

she blew it out of porportion and all you did was mention something you had once a long time ago considered.

get yourself some less anal friends who can take it. she must be very insecure.

if my friend said that to me I'd do the same AKristin....just LAUGH and joke about it, who cares??? ugh. people are SO uptight.

you are not the one with issues, trust me. It's not wrong to look at someone and nudge to your friend "gay or straight?" why do people get so offended over something so natural?

How rude! 'Congrats on your engagement...to a GAY man!' Especially when you have no grounded evidence, just speculation.

NOT FORGIVE. You are totally out of line to make any kind of assumptions and how nice that you polled everyone you knew prior to speaking to her. If you were truly a concerned friend this would have come up when they first started dating not after she has what I can assume is an amazing ring on her finger. She is completely justified in not wanting you at her wedding because you have definitely shown your lack of support.

This is not the horrible offense some people are making it out to be. You mentioned to your friend that at one point in time, you thought her fiance was gay. She asked you why and you mentioned his mannerisms and lifestyle made it often seem like he was.

What WOULD have been offensive was if you confronted her and told her that you and all of his, her, and your friends think that he's gay and that she's making a huge mistake and that you think she should call the wedding off.

Nowhere in the first scenario did you say anything about not supporting her or discouraging her relationship in any way. You never talked badly of her boyfriend (unless they both take great insult in being mistaken for gay, which is obviously not the case given his friendship with many gay men) and you never told her she was wrong for what she was doing. It certainly wasn't an attack.

This is all assuming you're telling the full truth in your story and that the subject indeed cam up naturally and you didn't really try and convince her that he was gay and she was making a bad decision. You may be covering your ass here and looking for validation.

I think she's completely justified in being pissed off at you...

You don't KNOW that he's gay. It's simply your opinion. She didn't ask you or solicit your advice/opinion on the topic.

It's not like he's mistreating her or cheating on her or doing wrong to her...if that was the case, then yes, I think it's okay to speak up and look out for your friend. But otherwise, it's always best to keep your opinions about a friend's significant other to yourself!!!!!!!

I think you acted poorly and you need to apologize to her.

I actually voted No Forgive. I don't think it was any of your business to be honest. My roommate is very femme, and most of my friends think he's gay at first but I hang out with him all the time and I can tell you 100% he is NOT gay. It's not fair to judge someone just by the way they look or act and make an assumption as big as a persons sexuality. I can understand why your friend would be upset so was it worth telling her your opinion? What did you expect her reaction to be other than upset because you're questioning her relationship with the man she's about to marry.

Forgive. You didn't say that he was gay, you were only expressing an assumption you'd had for a long time, and you weren't doing this as some sort of attack. It was just bad timing.

I'm surprised some of you think the friend is being insecure. The poster, in essence, is saying that she thinks the relationship is illegitimate, i.e. the relationship is a fraud. The poster doubts there is a genuine personal and physical connection between her friend and her fiance.

Incidently, how does the poster know FOR CERTAIN?? Is she part of the relationship? Why is she presuming she knows more about the relationship than her friend?

How would you like it if your friend presumes to know more about your boyfriend, fiance, or husband more than you do?

I think it's reasonable for the friend to be offended and insulted. It's not an issue of insecurity. It's a matter of understanding what the poster is truly saying.

If someone told me something like that about my relationship and fiance (thus, my future marriage and husband), I would find that unacceptable. I doubt I would have that person in my life, and that of my fiance's.

Let's be frank, you weren't looking out for her, you were turning the rumour mill, talking behind her back to everyone about her boyfriend, and then you were actually dumb enough to say it to her face too. I don't buy this "I was just looking out for her" bull.

I didn't notice this the first time I looked at this post - a "very snooty email"? To me, you feel like you were in the right and she overreacted and was rude to you, so I think forgive/not forgive is a bit of a waste...I don't see you guys resolving this. You expect her to understand your concern but to me it doesn't seem like you understand why this could upset her. I totally understand why your friend did this, right or wrong: you ambushed her with something that was a big deal (like GlowingMoon said, the relationship which obviously means a great deal to her is a fraud) and you used the rumor mill and cattiness as your evidence, and then she sat on it, got angry, and wrote you that email.

I think right now your actions are unforgiveable because they were damaging and ill thought out, but most of all I think you're being self-righteous about it. This is your friend - think about how you hurt her. I think your next step is to email her back to meet up and have an honest, non-confrontational discussion about it if you want to mend fences, and make her understand what your intentions were.

I say forgive. Who knows if she's right or not about him being gay - but how many times have you had a friend who was so blinded by love that she was totally clueless to a big red flag that everyone else could see? To me it is totally plausible that her friend's judgment could be a little clouded - after all, she's engaged to this guy she's only been with for nine months.

And to me, the sudden engagement seems to be WHY she told her friend at this time - she said she was completely surprised by it, so she likely didn't think their relationship was serious enough to mention it before then, but then their engagement proved otherwise.

I can see how she was looking out for her friend.

I kept waiting to read, "and then I saw him making out with his (male) friend." Since I didn't, it really does seem like she is just trying to cause drama.

The thing I don't get, even if the fiance did display some questionable behavior before, you are right, sexuality IS complicated, and something that is between this couple. Maybe your friend is really really dense, but chances are she has noticed the same behavior, and is still making the choice she did. Maybe it will backfire on her, maybe it will turn out that they are a great couple. He could be bisexual, how would you even know?

I just fail to see what good the asker's actions could have done.

Unforgivable. If you haven't seen or known of any gay relationship that he had in the past, there is no need to bring it up. You're just looking bitter by her happiness.

I forgive you. all you stated was your opinion. i think her getting that mad is bull-cr*p.

see,she would be mad if he left her a*s for another dude, and after her confusion and a bit of an investigation, she finds out that he hangs out at the Blue N*pple, you know, the same place you met him. so then she's gonna be p*ssed that you didn't tell her. and it's gonna be all your fault because a friend is suppse to have another friend's back.

personally, i would be mad at you. if you were a good friend, i might take what you're saying into consideration; maybe his pants are a bit tighter than mines, and he's not Emo. or that one night he was sooo drunk he was sitting on Daniel's lap. and you know there are some thirsty girls out there who move fast with these guys, (you know, like being engaged after 9 months), and they are in Tra-la-la Land that they don't see the signs. not just him being gay, but the fact that the guy can't hold a steady job, or he talks crazy to you, and calls you Shamu.

by you "thinking" he might be gay, doesn't mean you don't support her relationship. so let her be mad and have her fonky-a*s wedding. that will be one less gift she gets off of her bogus registry. they might not even make it to the wedding. she'll start talking to you again when she finds out that ol' boy likes to sho*t AND catch milkshake.

and nobody was saying that him being gay way wrong. heck, she might know, and don't want you to blow it out of the water. or, he's bi and she doesn't want judgement. whatever. let that heffa be.

for the future, you just need to know which friends want you to be a friend and keep it real, and which ones just want you to keep it in the closet.

I say forgive. I mean, you can always tell someone is gay just by how they dress and act. "Real" men act a certain way, ya know? They spit, grab their crotches, ogle women, are lewd, crude, and downright rude.

If he's not a selfish pig, he must be gay! Does bath daily, smell good and comb his hair? Gay! Does he treat you with courtesy and respect? Gay! Is he in touch with his feelings? Super gay!

I commend you for your bravery. It takes a real friend to poo-poo on someone else's happiness based on stereotypical assumptions and heresay. You should be VERY proud of yourself.

^sarcasm^

She should forgive you. Maybe not right away, though. Timing is everything, my dear; you should have chosen a day that was BEFORE they announced being engaged. Also, you make it sound like this happened the same day! You couldn't have chosen a worse time to bring her down from Cloud Nine.

However, you said you thought these things BEFORE they got together, right? and I don't recall you mentioning that you were unsupportive, just that it came up in conversation. Way to overreact.

She was hurt, sure, but she shouldn't have disinvited you. I think the best time for her to say something along the lines of how upset it made her would have been right then when you said it. Maybe she could have even stopped you right in the middle of what you were saying and told you how she felt. Sending you an email saying "Well, I'm not your BFF anymore" is completely passive-aggressive, utterly childish, and if that one sentence was a direct quote of what she wrote, then I'm pretty sure passive-aggressive is her thing anyway.

The worst thing you are guilty is having verbal diarrhea. Many of us have it at least once in a lifetime - you know, when you say a whole bunch of things you shouldn't say, and even though you know you need to shut the hell up, you keep talking...

Granted, your timing was WAY off (extremely to the far right of "right on time"), but she could at least have told you how she felt face to face, in a mature way, the same way you spoke to her.

I agree with some of the other people, though; you should try to work it out with her. It seems like a misunderstanding. You may have meant what you said, but surely you didn't intend to hurt her feelings.